Contents -BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD

Edward Farr, ed. Select Poetry of the Reign of Queen Elizabeth. 1845.

An Answere to a Romish Rime

XXVII. J. Rhodes

I PRAY thee, Protestant, beare with me,

To aske thee questions two or three;

And if an answere thou canst make,

More of thy counsell I will take.

If not, then must thou be content

That I remayne, as I am bent,

A Roman Catholike to be,

Which was a Protestant once with thee;

But now am gone away from you,

To those I take for Christians true.

I am content, Sir Catholike,

To heare, and grant the thing you seek:

But how should I assured bee

That you will then be rulde by mee,

When in your lawe it is set downe,

You may break faith with king and clowne?

Well—yet if God and learned men

Will giue me leaue to vse my pen,

I answere will, tho simply,

Your questions drawne from Popery.

Many and sundry sects appeare

Now in the world, both farre and neere;

The Protestant, the Puritan,

The Caluinist, and Zwinglian,

The Brownist, and the Family of Loue,

And many more that I can proue;

Beside the Romane faith truely,

Which Protestants call Papistry.

All these are Christ’s true church, they say;

But now on which shall my soule stay?

Strange sects there are, and so will be,

The church to trye in eche degree:

But for the most of them you name,

They are not worthy of that blame.

The Brownist, he is punished;

The Familists from vs are fled:

If we were rid of Papists too,

Both kingdoms should haue lesse to doo.

And you that will of sects complayne,

Shew which by law we doe maintayne.

All these with Rome in very deede

Rehearse all artikles of the creede,

And euery one of them still saith,

Theirs is the true Catholike faith.

But how should I, amongst all these,

Know truth from falshood, God to please?

This is the thing that still I seeke,

To know the true Church Catholike,

The fellowship and company

Of holy men in vnity.

If these with Rome, and thousands moe,

Receyue our creede, and yet will goe

So many hundred steppes awry

As Willet dooth in you descry;

They are not worthy once to beare

The name of Christians anywhere.

Returne agayne, therefore, I say,

To Christ, and to God’s word alway.

Then you shall see that Vnity

Is nothing without Verity.

I in your Bibles thus haue read,

The Church must through the world be spred;

For Christ he his apostles sent,

With power and with commandement,

That to all nations they should goe,

To preach and to baptize also.

What company then tooke in hand

To winne and to conuert this land,

With other countreyes farre and neere,

But Rome, our mother Church most deere?

Our Bibles teach all trueth indeede,

Which euery Christian ought to reede:

But Papists thereto will say nay;

Because their deedes it doth bewray.

Christ, he the twelue apostles sent;

But who gaue you commandement

To winne and gather anywhere?

To bind by othe, to vowe, and sweare

New proselytes to Popery,

Gaynst trueth, our prince, and countrey?

Saint Paul in his Epistle sayth,

The Romanes had the Catholike fayth,

And was so farre foorth renowned,

That none like it was published

Throughout the world in places all,

To be the trueth vniuersall.

If yours in England had bene so,

Then to your churches I would go;

But till you proue your faith thus cleere,

To yours I will no more come neere.

When Rome returnes to Christ againe,

And be as once it did remaine;

I meane, when Paul to them did write,

And when that fifteene popes in fight

Did suffer for the Gospell pure;

England for truth, you may be sure,

Will ioyne and ioy with Rome againe,

With Italy, with Fraunce and Spaine;

And Antichrist shall be cast downe,

Which now doth weare the triple crowne.

We reade in prophet Malachy,

There shall be offrings farre and nye;

A cleane oblation sacrifice

From place where now the sun doth rise

Vnto the setting of the same.

O, what is that? I pray thee, name.

If this be not the holy masse,

I’le be a Protestant as I was:

Wherefore resolue me speedily,

If thou wilt haue my company.

Saint Jerome and Tertullian,

Or any other learned man,

Writing on this short prophecy

Preached by prophet Malachy,

Shall iudge in this for vs and you,

Who giues best sence and meaning true.

We say it speakes of pure prayer;

Not of your masse, but Christ’s supper:

And you, to make poore soules your asse,

Doe saye its meant of popish masse.

In th’ eighteenth Psalme there it is found,

That all the world shall heare their sound:

That is to say, shall vnderstand,

In euery nation, realme, and land,

That Rome, and eke the fayth of Rome,

Is vniuersall without doome.

Goe where you will the world throughout,

And Rome is famous without doubt.

And if this marke you doe not want,

Then presently I will recant.

The Psalme for number you mistooke,

Eighteene for nineteene in your booke:

The sense thereof first literall

Is meant of creatures great and small.

And to the Romanes for the sound

Is meant God’s word which doth abound:

And not for Popish doctrine taught,

Of which in that age no man thought.

Therefore your sound, glory, and fame,

Is now nought else but open shame.

This is another marke most sure,

The fayth of Christ must still endure;

According as our Sauiour sayd,

When for Saint Peter once he prayd:

Simon, thy faith shall neuer fayle;

The gates of hell shall not preuayle;

The Holy Ghost your Comforter,

He shall remayne with you euer;

And myselfe, your surest friend,

Will be with you to the world’s end.

We graunt the trueth must stil endure;

But of this one thing let’s be sure:

And that is, whether we or you

Doe hold the fayth of Christ most true.

Your doctrine is a doung-hill heape

Of man’s traditions, which did creepe

Into the Church by some and some,

Vntil you had spoyled Christ’s kingdome.

Christ’s words to Peter you abuse;

Therefore your sense we doe refuse.

Saint Paul doeth playnly write, and say,

There shall be in the Church alway

Apostles, prophets, and such like,

That for the flocke of Christ shall seeke,

And by their preaching bring them home,

Of Jews and Gentiles, where they roame.

Our Church haue these, and many moe,

Which labour thus, and bide much woe.

If this be false, and not at Rome,

Then will I be conuerted soone.

Saint Paul in places three doth showe,

What men into the world should goe;

And after those, of pastours all,

That should bring men from Sathan’s thrall,

In setled congregation stil,

There to be taught God’s word and will.

But as for munks, for priests, for fryers,

For jesuites, and common lyers,

They haue no warrant in God’s word,

Although they reign with fire and sword.

This is another marke most cleare:

The Church of God must still appeare,

And as a city on a hill,

So must we see it flourish still;

And as a candle shining bright,

So must God’s Church appeare in sight.

Our Sauiour saith, If one offend,

And will not by rebukes amend,

Esteeme him as a wicked man,

A heathen or a publican.

How long will papists blinded be

In that which euery eye may see?

The Church is called militant,

And troubles it doth neuer want:

So that sometimes, as sunne and moone,

It is eclips’t and hath her doome,

In man’s conceit to shine no more;

But God againe doth her restore,

To shine and shew her beautie bright,

To teach and censure men aright.

And is not that the Church most true,

Wherein succeeded, still in viewe,

Of bishops some two hundred, three,

As thou in histories mayest see?

Saint Peter first, and then the rest,

Which haue the people taught and blest?

Shew me this marke once amongst you,

And I will say your faith is true.

If not, it is the Church of Rome

That I will cleaue vnto for doome.

For trueth, this your succession

Came from false prophets euery one,

From Balaam’s time vnto this day,

With high priests and such like alway.

And holy Scripture doth describe

The pope with his condemned pride:

And though you say he doth excell,

Yet he and you may burne in hell.

John in the Reuelation

Writes of Rome’s desolation.

There is another marke also,

By which the true Church you may know;

And that indeede is vnitie,

Set out in many a similie

By Christ our Sauiour; who foretold

Of one shepheard, and one sheepefold;

One spouse; one husband her to loue;

One derling deare, and one fayre doue:

One fayth, one baptisme is heere,

And no dissention dooth appeare.

The name of Church I know you seeke,

Though euery way you be vnlike:

By these your markes eche filth may proue

Themselues to be Christ’s Church and doue.

Eche sinne is spred vniuersall;

Its visible to great and small.

Idolaters haue vnity,

And hypocrites antiquity:

But trueth, which euery one should bring,

They and you want in euerything.

You Protestants doe daily read,

In Nicen and Apostles’ creed,

The Church of God must holy bee,

Which we performe in each degree;

Most holy men and sacrifice,

Sweet seruice and fine ceremonies;

Seuen sacraments we haue alwaies,

Double and treble holydaies;

Virgins and saints, martyrs, and all,

Be ours, and you haue none at all.

God’s Church, we know, is sanctifide

By Christ his Spirit, who is their guide;

And holy dueties still they doe

On Sabboth daies, and other too.

But your vaine seruice we detest,

Your May-game pastimes, and the rest;

Your popish saints and votaries all;

Your traytrous martyrs, great and small.

Nothing in you but holynesse,

When none commit more wickednesse.

Our Sauiour warnes vs to haue care,

And of false prophets to beware;

Which in his name to vs will come,

Not sent by him, and yet they runne;

Strong theeues, not entring in aright

By Christ the dore; but in the night

They breake in at the window hie,

And steale that none may them espie:

Their comming is not to doe good,

But like to wolues they thirst for blood.

Yet in sheepe’s clothing these doe goe,

Because God’s people should not knowe

But that they are his pastors sure,

Which Christ hath sent with doctrine pure,

To teach, to preach, to set, and sowe,

That Christ in th’ end might reap and mow:

But when their seeds are somewhat sprung,

They proue but tares and darnell young;

Thistles and thornes so are they found,

Choking and cumbering the ground.

These liue ene as they list truly:

Their god we see is their belly;

Like dogges and foxes so they range;

Sects they deuise, and schismes strange;

Heaping vpon themselues damnation,

For liuing after such a fashion.

These notes and marks we find in you,

More then in any Turk or Iew,

Who doe deny the name of Christ,

And doe not make them any priest.

You say, that your faith did appeare

To be the truth sixe hundred yeare:

But tell me then, Sir, if you can,

When Popery at first began?

Where were the seruants of the Lord?

Durst none of them then speake a word?

Where were the feeders of the sheepe?

Were they all dead, or fast asleepe?

Did none of them defend the trueth,

But was controld in age and youth?

Did now St Peter’s strong faith fayle?

And did the gates of hell preuayle?

Or did the salt his sauour lose?

Did Christ some other spouse then choose?

Or was truth’s piller ouerthrowne,

By which all truth was to be knowne?

If this were so, Christ’s word so playne,

And promises, must be but vaine;

Which was that heauen and earth should quaile,

Before his word one iote should faile.

Where haue you byn so long a time?

And vnto whom did your light shine?

Where did your chiefest pastor sit?

Who kept your keies, your helme, and ship?

Shew vs some churches you haue built,

As we can shew where you haue spilt.

What, were all damned eternally,

That were not of your company?

How might a man haue found you out,

To heare and helpe in things of doubt?

When Luther, like a lying fryer,

One whom the diuell did inspire,

Did breake his vow to wed a nun,

Euen then your heresie begun,

And fauouered was in Saxony

By dukes that loued liberty;

And in king Edward’s time agayne

It gan to growe and spread amayne.

A thousand yeeres, you write and say,

That papistry did beare the sway.

And during all that time and space

We say you durst not shew your face.

Who kept the holy Scriptures then

From hands of vilde and wicked men?

Who had authority to ordaine

Bishops, doctors, and priests, againe?

For he that came in without order,

Comes as a theefe to steale and murder:

He is a wolfe, and not a priest;

An enemy, no friend to Christ.

And one thing more dooth make me muse,

That our priests you did not refuse

To say your seruice, and to sing

A psalme of Dauid. Note that thing.

This man a benefice might haue,

If he at any time did craue.

Like Iereboam, so dealt yee,

And tooke all sorts of eche degree:

A worthy mingle-mangle then

Was made of you, for lacke of men.

How may your Church make any priest,

If she be not the Church of Christ?

Answere these questions, if you can,

And I will be a Protestan.

But while your answere you deuise,

I counsell all men that are wise

To hold the fayth mayntayned heere

The space of fifteene hundred yeere,

Or of one thousand at the least;

From which who turnes shall proue a beast.

Saint Austin our apostle was,

Who came from Rome and here said masse:

He first arriued here in Kent,

And so to other places went.

His fayth came from pope Gregory,

Which fayth was kept successiuely

By many bishops, as we read,

From Peter’s time, who was the head:

Who learn’d his fayth of Christ, I say,

To whom be prayse now and alway.

Amen. Amend. Papist, amend.

By this time you are out of breath;

Such periods may breede your death.

But I will set out with such pace,

As shall, and may, I hope, winne grace

With God, with Christ, and all good men

That euer wrote with inke and pen:

The goale I trust to winne at last,

And when I haue it, holde it fast,

Unto the honour of his name,

That gaue me power to winne the same.

The most of these I might reuert

Vpon your selues, which can peruert

Both word and history of times,

To cloke your lewd and open crimes.

But something briefly I will say,

For that which you cast in our way,

As stumblingblocks for euery one

To stumble at, where you make mone.

Consider well that you, therefore,

Are euen those men whom ye abhore.

Ye are false prophets teaching lies;

You weare sheepe’s clothing to disguise;

You runne and range not being sent,

For which you ought still to repent.

You are those theeues that enter in

To Christ his Church, and neuer lyn;

While you haue stor’d yourselues with good,

And fil’d yourselues like wolues with blood.

You enter not by Christ the doore,

But by the pope, the Romish whoore.

You blind men’s eies with outward showes,

And say that you are no man’s foes:

You fast from flesh to eat good fish,

With fruites and many a costly dish.

You pray on beades, and prey on men;

You doe deuoure maids and women.

You seldome preach, and that but lies,

The pope and popelings to suffice:

Your doctrine comes from the pope’s schoole,

Where many a wise man proues a foole.

Your doctrine comes not from God’s booke,

But you on lyes and legends looke;

On festiuals and liues of saints,

Which you haue made with your owne paints.

God’s word you count of little force,

And to the same haue small recorse:

Your people from it you disswade,

Because that, like two-edged blade,

It doth deuide, and eke descry

Man’s sinne and popish treachery.

Your doctrine is but darnell sure

Vnto this graine, God’s word so pure.

What is the chaff vnto the wheat?

What is man’s wit to wisdome great?

Your gold is brasse; your siluer tinne;

Your teaching drosse; your deeds but sinne.

Remember what you taught and did,

Before that your bad tricks were spi’d:

Remember persons, time and place,

And so repent and call for grace.

Whereas you charge our liues for bad,

We grieue thereat: we are not glad:

If you did rule, it would be so,

And ten times worse, full well I knowe.

This realme is very populous,

And you, like night-birds, hinder vs.

Christ said, you know, that in each land,

Sinne, it would get the vpper hand:

Let all men striue, therefore, say I,

Against all sinne and popery.

You liue at ease, and as you will;

Like epicures yourselues you fill:

Your belly is your god, indeede;

Your puffed cheekes your hands doe feede.

The best of all things in eche land

By slights you got into your hand.

Thus did you fast, thus did you prey

On men and women night and day.

A thousand waies your gaines come in

Through Antichrist, that man of sinne.

You would no wiues, for that was ill;

But whoores and harlots at your will:

No woman must come in your sight,

Vnlesse it were some nun by night.

Your common stewes you still maintaine;

For why? they bring the pope much gaine.

When manasteries brake vp here,

Then did your filthinesse appeare:

Thousands of infants’ heads were found

In ponds and places, which you drown’d.

Like dogges and foxes therefore you

Did lead your liues: it is your due:

Like swine, like wolues, like Sathan’s brood,

That neuer did God’s people good.

Like hypocrites in euery place

You liued, and doe, without God’s grace.

You make poore people to beleeue,

That you can all their sinnes forgiue.

It were too long to make relation,

How you and yours deserue damnation.

But where you say that we doe write

Of this our faith, which you despite,

That it was found and did appeare

To be the trueth sixe hundred yeare:

We say, that from Christ his assension

For our fayth was no such contention,

As papists make now at this day,

Nor in that space of yeeres, we say:

But this our faith it euer stood,

Euen since that Abel lost his blood.

On God’s sweet word we doe depend,

For it shall iudge vs in the end:

It is our wisdome and our ioy,

And man’s tradition are a toy.

Though some things hard doe there appeare,

The rest we read in all the yeare,

And find that it sufficient is

To guide all men to heauenly blisse.

What would you more, but that you stand

For popish trash in euery land?

Now where you ask of popery,

When it begun and to sit hie;

I answere will to your demand

Both readily and out of hand.

It bred in the Apostles’ time,

And so increaste by many a signe:

Great strife then grew three hundred yeres,

As in Church stories it appeares,

For many things; but chiefly, one—

Who should be supreme head alone.

All bishops wrote against this thing:

No emperour would euer bring

Any one bishop to the same,

Till wicked Phocas’ time by name:

But he, a wicked murtherer,

Vnto this act was furtherer,

That none might checke him for that deede

Of killing father, mother, and seede.

Thus did proud bishop Boniface,

Third of that name, set in highest place.

And now the other bishops three,

That made vp foure of one degree,

Were first made vassal vnto Rome,

From whence all popish trash doth come.

When Boniface was thus aloft,

He play’d his part, and wonders wrought:

And so did all of Rome beside,

Untill they grew to their full pride;

And were of late unhorst agayne

By Christian kings that them disdayne.

The true Church was eclipsed then,

And had in scorne of carnall men:

The prophesies fulfilled were

Of Daniell, who pray’d in feare;

And those in Reuelation,

Which God did giue vnto St John.

A thousand yeeres this held out so,

That Christ’s true flock you could not know,

But by their persecution sharpe,

Which they endur’d with willing hart.

Yet still Christ and his Gospell stood,

In persecution and in blood.

The popes left off to preach and teach,

And after worldly things to reach.

In time they grew so fierce and fell,

That no good man with them could dwell.

They put down kings and princes hie,

Abusing them to slauery.

And what they said or did was lawe:

Thus euery one was kept in awe.

In all your popes true faith did faile,

And hell itselfe did much preuaile:

The salt his sauor lost in them;

Christ was in truth reiected then.

Yea, all his death and glorious passion

Was turn’d into another fashion.

Each pope a new toy did deuise

To blind and bleare the people’s eyes:

Fooles, apes, and asses still they made

Of God’s poore people by this trade.

The second question that you make,

I answere will for each man’s sake,

That cannot answere readily

Your arguments and sophistry.

Where was our Church, you say, that time?

Where did the beauty of it shine?

Where did our chiefest pastour sit?

Who kept our keyes? who rulde our ship?

You bid vs shew you churches built,

As you can shew those we haue spilt.

To these, in order as they lye,

I will in few words now reply:

Where is the sunne, the moone, the stars,

When cloudes and darknes make them wars?

Doe they not shine still, where they be,

Vnder those cloudes? euen so did we.

Our chiefest pastour, he is Christ;

And he sits in the heauens highest.

He hath the keyes, and guides our ship,

And laughes to scorne our little wit.

For churches, first we answere you

By churches of another hiewe:

How many churches hath Christ built,

And you the blood of them haue spilt?

Of other churches that you speake,

God in his iudgement doth them breake,

Euen as he did Hierusalem

For killing of his prophets then;

And as he did the hill-altars

And groues of all idolaters.

You aske what are become alway

Of all that dyed to this day?

We are no judges in this case;

We leaue them to the throne of grace.

Idolaters may aske you so,

Of those that haue died long agoe:

What answere can you make therein

But this? that God for all their sinne

May iustly damn them if he will,

Or saue, where he likes not to kill.

When Abram was with Tera, he,

His father deare, as children be,

And God cald Abraham away,

What, should he not God’s call obay?

Or should he answere as you doe,

“As my friends did, I will doe too?”

But you will say, you be none such,

When yet you vse like things too much

Try by the Scriptures well, and see

Who comes neer’st idoles, you or me.

You aske, how you might find vs out,

To answere things that were in doubt.

I say, that euen as wolues by kinde

The sheep and lambes in field can finde.

So did you find vs to our cost;

Or else how were our liues so lost,

First in the persecutions ten,

And in the rest succeeding them,

In England, Scotland, and in Fraunce,

And euery place you taught that daunce?

But when the day of count shall come,

That you shall answere all, and some;

When Christ, the Master of the sheepe,

Shall reckon vs, as it is meet;

Then from the blood of Abel’s time,

Vnto the last of such like crime,

You and the rest shall answere all,

Vnto your sorrowe, griefe, and thrall.

Vnlesse you doe repent with speed,

Your count will fearefull be indeed.

Till Luther’s time you say that we

Heard not of Christ; but you shall see

That we, not you, haue heard of him,

As onely pardoner of our sinne.

Thrise happy Luther, and the rest,

(Except some faults which we detest;)

And ten times happy euery land,

That hath receiued with strong hand

The Gospell pure of Christ on hie,

And haue put downe all popery!

You aske, Who kept all Scripture then?

Who made our priests, and all church-men?

We answere, that our God of loue

Did saue and keepe it from aboue,

As in the time of Jeremy,

When it was burnt by Jehudy;

And as the arke deliuered was

From Philistins, as came to passe;

And finally, as God can make

All creatures serue his Church, and quake.

Now for our Churche’s ordination,

We know the Scripture’s good relation;

And so were made our bishops all,

Our ministers both great and small.

Salamon made Sadock he

Priest in Abiathar’s room to be:

So that, insteed of popish priests,

Our queen sent ministers for Christ;

And though a time some were but weake,

Yet now a number can well speake.

And when you say, you marvell how

We did receyue such as did vow

Themselues your priests of popish order,

To serue with vs in any border;

My answere is, that you might see

What men of mercy protestants be;

Which would receiue all to saluation,

And not condemne them in your fashion.

You did deuise and striue to keepe

All heere from feeding of our sheepe.

An ordination may be good,

Though some men guilty of soule’s blood

Unworthy be in Church to serue,

For punishment that they deserue.

Some things took ill in hand also

At first, may yet in time, we know,

Proue good againe; and so may this:

The churchman’s calling is for blisse.

If yours not so, or be not right,

Amend your fault: beare vs no spight.

And to conclude: you bragge and say,

That Austin first did here bewray

The trueth of Christ: but it’s not so;

True histories does name vs moe.

But graunt that hee first taught this land:

Were all things good come from his hand?

No, no; he taught much popery,

But not so much as now doth fly.

Simon Zelotes, and Saint Paul,

Are said to teach vs first of all.

Till you these things doe well disproue,

I wish all men in tender loue

To note what I haue sayd herein,

To turne to God, and leaue their sinne;

To trust no popish Jesuite,

Nor yet in masse-priests to delight.

For certainely their hierarchy,

Their kingdome and their policy,

Shall, will, and must of force fall downe,

For Christ abhorres the triple crowne.

This Christ in mercy, therefore, saue

Our queene and vs with that we haue;

Our children and posterity,

And keepe vs from all popery:

His holy gospell graunt vs still,

And frame vs to his holy will;

That we may know and loue the same

Vnto the glory of his name:

Pray, heare, and reade continually,

That from his truth we neuer flye!